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August 03, 2021

Comments

KC

The part where you put it in the pantry after opening it should Not Be Applied To Mayonnaise.

(I did not think you would be confused about this food safety fact; I just think it's really funny and also the whole thing seems pretty bizarre but really that's what you get with complicated things?)

(I have a "must NOT be frozen and must NOT be at room temp for too long" one. But one lets it come up to room temp before injecting, which is fine because it's going to be pretty warm after being injected anyway!)

TheQueen

KC - what gets me are the things that cannot be re-frozen. You thaw a frozenTV dinner in the fridge because you are absent-minded? They expect you to throw that away.

KC

They don't want you to sue them if you'd left it at fridge (or, given some peoples' defrosting habits, room) temp for a while, then re-froze and thawed and ate. According to a paramedic relative, freezing massively slows down bacterial reproduction but doesn't totally stop it, so if you get the process started, then re-freeze the thing, you're still breeding trouble. At least if you don't bring the whole thing up to kill-it-all temp, which: let's face it: many people don't.

(package and food degrading also happens with some things if you thaw and refreeze; those weird cardboard tray things can stand up to *one* cycle of heating-from frozen but can't stand up to just being left thawed for a while)(but mostly: lawsuit avoidance, probably.)

TheQueen

KC - what is kill-it-all temp? I assume at least 145 for pork, 165 for birds?

KC

It's a combo of time+temp. Botulism toxin is the hardest, because that's 10 minutes of internal temp of 212F to burn it all off - but that's to destroy a toxin, not deactivate/kill bacteria. The WHO has a nifty chart of research on different strains of bacteria (that commonly occur in water, but they include the top food poisoning candidates)and what's recommended for time/temp by various studies (basically the entirety of page 2): https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/Boiling_water_01_15.pdf (note that the time column is in seconds, not minutes!)

(covid isn't on there yet. But it's not a virus you transmit via beverage... as far as we know, at least!)

TheQueen

KC - well that is terrifying.

KC

Is it the chart you find terrifying, or botulism toxin boil-off time, or the covid-via-beverage thing?

If the thought of covid transmitting via beverage: most of our drinkable safety measures, for both tap water and canned/bottled/milk-cartoned beverages are pretty rigorous against most micro-organisms (barring shared cups/bottles/etc. from whence we get non-romantic mono), and covid is not enthusiastic about chlorine, so I am not worried about it. (except unpasteurized juice. I have no idea what the people are thinking, who buy and drink unpasteurized juice that is not made *right* in front of them. Bad Plan Folks. But that's just in general and not pandemic-specific.)

Legionnaire's is also weird/scary and a water thing, but again a separate source of risk and also a bacterium; viruses can't self-replicate without a host cell to teach to make more virus (which can be a variety of species, but still requires a living host), whereas bacteria is just peachy with replicating as long as it has whatever food and conditions that specific bacteria wants.

Anyway. Delta is out there; stay masked and distanced and hunker until at least this wave is over; but no need to cast a side-eye at your can of seltzer or cup of tap water.

TheQueen

KC - Delta, then Delta Plus, then Lambda … and I am well-hunkered. No, the terrifying thing was that there were so many bugs. I’ve been so focused on the covid that I relaxed my guard. EColi, Ebola, all of it could get me.

KC

If hunkered and following food-safety protocols and general Good Practice in sanitary things, it's gonna be stinkin' hard for anything to get at you. I mean, all the bugs have to get to you *somehow* to infect you; some normally wander along by human contact, some normally wander along in food, but the human contact ones are now cut off from access to you. So: you are probably in total terms safer than normal, not less-safe than normal, if you are hunkering (provided the hunkering does not interfere with necessary medical stuff).

(I *feel* less safe than normal right now because our hospital is packed-out. But I have had one (1) ER trip and zero (0) inpatient visits in the past ~7 years, so odds are good I will personally be fine. Still playing things safe and not doing medication experiments, though, until they're not stowing spare covid patients in the ER rooms.)(they got up to *7* ER holds of patients who needed either inpatient or ICU care. 7 out of 15 ER beds. I wish people would wear masks and be cautious already...)

TheQueen

KC - make it against the law to walk about without a mask. That’s all I can imagine. And your hospital situation sounds very alarming. If it’s an emergency, the ER Is where you have to go.

KC

Enforcement on that would be "interesting" in states that have loose gun laws and people who feel guns are good solutions to any impingement of their personal 'freedoms', though. (there were gun threats when our city initially thought about doing a mask mandate - they backed off then, but later put a mask mandate in place anyway, with zero teeth to it because the police basically said "we're not enforcing this; we have other things to do" but yeah. But even with no teeth, it improved matters by a chunk, at least.)(and now the state has passed anti-mask-mandate laws, so we're sort of up a creek re: masks)

Basically, there needs to be broad public buy-in *and* rules/laws, if you want more than 70% masking. And also you need police willing to deal with the people who throw things or pull guns or simply refuse to wear a mask and insist on entering where they're not supposed to enter without a mask. But as long as it's profitable to enough people to encourage anti-mask sentiment, we will probably not get there.

(however, as of this morning, the ER is back down to no holds, hooray! But all ICU and inpatient beds are full, so it won't take much to end up with more ER holds.)

TheQueen

KC - probably the same gun laws that existed in 1918, though.

KC

Yeah, the anti-maskers in 1918 are *also* a real piece of work. But different in some vital ways.

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